Episode Transcript
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John Coe - host [0:09 - 0:11]
Hi, I'm John Coe and welcome to.
John Coe - host [0:11 - 0:14]
Icons of DC Area Real Estate, a.
John Coe - host [0:14 - 4:35]
One on one interview show featuring the backgrounds, career trajectories and insights of the top luminaries in the Washington D.C. area Real estate market. The purpose of the show was to explore their journeys, how they got started, the pivotal moments that shaped their careers, and the lessons they've learned along the way. We also dive into their current work, industry trends, and some fascinating behind the scenes stories that bring unique perspective to our industry. Commercial Real Estate welcome to another episode of icons of D.C. area real estate. Today I'm thrilled to introduce my guest, Jason Bonnet, the Chief Development Officer for Essen, a new next generation real estate development investment firm. Esen is focused on delivering high impact mixed use projects in major urban centers across North America. Built by a team largely comprised of former Forest City and Brookfield executives, Jason's career is defined by a remarkable journey that weaves together grassroots entrepreneurial drive with massive institutional scale. He grew up here in Silver Spring, Maryland and his father taught him the entrepreneurial spirit. As his father was a contractor, so he got an early sense of the real estate business. So after graduating from the University of North Carolina, he started his own development company called Bonnet Development and for seven years he developed small scale projects here in the Washington D.C. area focused on revitalizing D.C. communities in the early 2000s. Then he transitioned to get his graduate degree at the University of Southern California and while there he was inspired to go into institutional development. So he was able after school to get a position with Forest City Realty Trust and came back to Washington D.C. to become development Manager on the team leading the redevelopment of the Navy Yard installation called the Yards which is on the Southwest waterfront which now includes 48 acres adjacent to the Ballpark. He goes into great depth about that project and how he curated retail and chef driven restaurants into bringing it to being a very special place. His execution proved highly successful, achieving one of Forest City's fastest lease ups ever with the Foundry Lofts project and securing a top of market rents for the ARIS project, another one he worked on. Jason elevated his experience when he was given the opportunity to relocate to San Francisco and head up two large projects there encompassing over 4,000 multi family units, 1 million square feet of office and half a million square feet of retail. They are the Pier 70 Waterfront Project and the 5M Project which is in the 5th and Mission neighborhood. Each project was in distinct neighborhoods and provided different development challenges, but he learned tremendously about developing one of the more challenging places to develop in the United States, San Francisco, California. While he was there, Brookfield Properties acquired Forest City and he became a senior officer with them. He was subsequently transferred back to lead the east coast development effort for Brookfield. Earlier this year, he and a few of his colleagues at Brookfield decided to leave and form Essen, their new company. He's now headquartered in New York City and in the early stages of developing a $1.5 billion project on the shore of the Hudson river across Manhattan in Jersey City, New Jersey, which he talks about at some length. So without further ado, here is my extensive conversation with Jason Bonet.
John Coe - host [4:36 - 5:08]
So, Jason Bonet, welcome and thank you for joining me for Icons of PCRA Real Estate. Congratulations on your new venture at Essen Esen. And as Essen's newly appointed Chief Development Officer. At a high level, what specific aspects of this role excite you most? Particularly concerning the firm's focus on, quote, high impact, mixed use developments in major urban centers across North America?
Jason Bonnet - guest [5:09 - 5:35]
First and foremost, thank you, John, for having me here. I've been a long time listener. I'm honored that you thought of bringing me on here. We've known each other for a very long time, so you've seen me grow and mature and move around a lot over the last couple decades. And you've, you've always been an anchor and a voice through my journey, through my career. I can't thank you enough. So thank you again.
John Coe - host [5:36 - 5:38]
You're welcome. You're welcome.
Jason Bonnet - guest [5:39 - 6:57]
As it relates to Esen, I'm excited about a number of things. First and foremost, the company itself, the people we have here that we brought together, this core team, not just at the partners level, but also the collective team. And we can dive into that more in regards to where we've all come from. We've all been working together for a long time and we're bringing all that expertise and knowledge from our past careers into this new venture. And then it's our pipeline and we have some amazing partners and partnerships for our pipeline. We're focused on large scale mixed use developments, the majority of that being anchored in multi family. Our biggest project is here in the New York metro, actually, right on the Jersey City waterfront. And then we also have a focus in the Southeast, in the Midwest. So lots of opportunity, lots of growth. What better time than now than to start a new venture, start a new company and get rolling right? As they say, when, when times are tough or in down cycles, what better time to start a startup? And that's exactly what we're doing. So we're very excited for today and for what the future brings.
John Coe - host [6:58 - 7:51]
We'll dive into a lot of the details as the conversation unfolds. But one thing I'd like to really understand is before we get into your deep background, is what excited your investors to take on this ambitious initial project, which is a $1.5 billion waterfront development in Jersey City, which obviously is a very phenomenal location across Manhattan. And so it's a great, has all the real estate bones to it, but the timing is interesting. So I'm just kind of understanding, you know, why are they willing to make the commitment now and what makes them feel bold about the opportunity there? Just out of curiosity.
Jason Bonnet - guest [7:54 - 9:42]
Well, the market has proven itself out. So a number of us at Essent have been working in a Jersey City market for over a decade on previous projects. So we're very familiar with the market. We're based here in New York. And if anyone has been around the New York Metro over the last decade, you can see that, yes, sure, there was the pandemic years that there was a lot of movement outside of New York, but anyone who's been around since has seen just the energy return to New York and Greater New York. And one of the upsides or benefits have been the outer boroughs. And we like to call Jersey City the Six borough. It's a wonderful neighborhood. The waterfront there has grown significantly in terms of the amenities, the multi family that's been delivering there over the last eight to 10 years. The vacancy is 2, 3%, if that. So there's a lot of excitement as it relates to the ability to deliver more units in a very a business friendly environment. That's in Jersey City where the demand far outpaces the supply. As you've mentioned, it's across from the river from Manhattan. So the best views of Manhattan are from Jersey City, not Manhattan. A wonderful commute on the PATH train. The PATH train is a wonderful way to get to work, whether you're going to Midtown or the Financial District. And of course, one of the best waterfronts in the US that is in walking distance to walk up and down the waterfront there. So there's a lot to be excited about, whether it's the qualitative or the quantitative metrics that investors look at.
John Coe - host [9:43 - 10:04]
That's great. So let's now peel back and look at your upbringing and your education leading up to your career, if we would. So I understand you grew up right near where I live here in Silver Spring, Maryland. So talk about that and your family a little bit and then also your education, if you would.
Jason Bonnet - guest [10:05 - 10:58]
Sure, yes. I am from Silver Spring, Maryland. Born, right, born and lived right on Queen Anne's Drive right in downtown Silver Spring. If anyone's familiar with that. The upbringing was pretty, pretty wonderful. So right on our block or the few blocks around where I lived, there were about a dozen kids all around the same age, maybe we were a few years apart. And so that, that was really the first sense of community that, that I had. And I grew up with where you could just go next door to your friend's house. Your, the parent, your friend's parents were like your second parents or third parents. Yeah. And whether we were biking around downtown Silver Spring, going to the old armory for comic book shows or baseball card shows, this was way before the Discovery Channel was down there.
John Coe - host [10:58 - 10:58]
Oh, sure.
Jason Bonnet - guest [10:58 - 12:53]
You know, there's the, the famous diner that was down there. Yeah, look, we had parks. It was, it was a lot of fun playing outside, of course, and when it was raining, you'd play Nintendo indoors or play with your Lego. So a great sense of community, fun and just a great, great upbringing. My. And also I gotta, you know, speak to my, my parents in that upbringing. So my father is a subcontractor in the D.C. area, electrical subcontractor. And, and so I grew up following him around on job sites, construction sites, and whenever I needed a few extra bucks, he would tell me to swing a hammer or pull some wire through, you know, through those studs. And, and so kind of being exposed to construction sites, mostly on the residential side. There's a few office rehabs there. And then on my mom's side, I've got to give her a lot of credit as well. She was a HR executive of a Fortune 100 company. And she always taught me in terms or was the ability to see through the lens of the human resources side. Right. Relationships, kind of looking how to talk to someone, the dialogue there, how best to prepare for a job interview or how best to show up for work. And she even negotiated some labor disputes with unions in some of her career. And so when I had to kind of ask for help as it relates to how would you go about this in regards to this negotiation with this counterparty or this in this public private partnership, she was always a wealth of knowledge to me as well as the experience and the passion that my dad gave me as it relates to the built environment that started, I guess, from, from wires and studs.
John Coe - host [12:55 - 13:00]
So you had a sense early on that real estate was going to be your gain. Potentially.
Jason Bonnet - guest [13:01 - 13:16]
Potentially. It was always around me. It always interest me. I think my imagination was, was Greater than. Than the actual. Like the. The specificity of. Of real estate. And so.
John Coe - host [13:16 - 13:17]
Right.
Jason Bonnet - guest [13:17 - 14:11]
My wonder and imagination kind of took me more towards sketches, drawing, to film. And really that was my. My first pursuit where I thought, hey, I. I would love to be the next Stanley Kubrick. Okay. Yeah. And in terms of, you know, film production and direction, I. I thought, what better way than to kind of imagine stories, narratives, or even worlds and kind of put that together, Whether that was through, you know, building it through Legos and filming that or taking photos, but that was. That was really. And I think through that, kind of. Through that wonderment and interest or passion, eventually, years later, I realized, wow, I can actually do all this in real estate as well. And it's called being a developer. And so that kind of light bulb moment later on.
John Coe - host [14:12 - 14:18]
Sure. So where'd you go to school? Under, you know, elementary and then. Ice cold stuff.
Jason Bonnet - guest [14:19 - 14:32]
Yeah. So elementary school jumped around a bit because we. We. We moved when I was 10 years old. So we. We were first down in downtown Silver Spring and then moved up towards. Towards the White Oak area.
John Coe - host [14:32 - 14:32]
Sure.
Jason Bonnet - guest [14:32 - 14:36]
But eventually ended up at Springbrook High School.
John Coe - host [14:36 - 14:37]
Springbrook. Okay.
Jason Bonnet - guest [14:37 - 14:38]
That's where I went. Yeah.
John Coe - host [14:39 - 14:41]
And then North Carolina after that.
Jason Bonnet - guest [14:41 - 14:42]
Usc.
John Coe - host [14:42 - 14:43]
Why there?
Jason Bonnet - guest [14:43 - 14:50]
That's right. A lot of family that went there, and they have an amazing basketball program. Not that I played basketball.
John Coe - host [14:51 - 14:52]
Yeah.
Jason Bonnet - guest [14:52 - 15:49]
Yeah. A beautiful campus, very hard school to get into, and just a kind of a wonderful environment. And I think one of the reasons I went there was just by the encouragement of my dad and my dad's dad, my grandfather, really saying, hey, just kind of, if this is your top choice, why settle on anything else and go for it and just commit to it and see what happens. And so they. They gave me the confidence to say, okay, I have nothing to lose, and you don't lose if you're not in the game, as they say. Right. And so ended up there. And that's really where I bounced around in terms of exploring, you know, business, but then also film production there. And I stuck with that as my. My primary. I had a wonderful time at Carolina and a lot of wonderful times on Franklin street as well.
John Coe - host [15:50 - 15:58]
I don't think of North Carolina as being a film production school, but maybe they have a program there that's good. Is that. Did you find that or.
Jason Bonnet - guest [15:58 - 16:57]
I. I did, yeah. I. I found that. And it even led me to a summer in New York with a production studio here. So funny enough, how I. It graduating from Carolina and thinking, hey, I'm gonna go back to New York And I'm gonna dive right into the film industry. And you know, things happen throughout your, your life journey and a lot of that is at the macro level that you don't control, such as recessions. And through that you, you kind of learn through the bumps in a road to kind of navigate and learn and you go through that. And so didn't happen that I moved back to New York and instead moved, moved back home during that recessionary period. It was the dot com bubble. But through that it kind of reset my, my journey in terms of kind of finding my way into, into real estate.
John Coe - host [16:59 - 17:08]
So right after Carolina, then you started your own company, is that right? Talk about that thought process and evolution. You would.
Jason Bonnet - guest [17:10 - 18:48]
Yeah. So going home and looking around for jobs and opportunities and realizing I wasn't going to go up to New York, I was always driving around D.C. seeing vacant buildings, row houses, or just properties that needed a little love and tender care. And then also driving around, you see signs for Abdo or JBG or Hoffman. You see these awesome kind of larger real estate developers. So, you know, always being the dreamer, I just dreamed, oh wow, wouldn't it be cool to work at one of those places, right? Work on kind of a large scale building, work on a waterfront project. That, that'll probably never happen, but hey, maybe I can try my hand at a, you know, row house renovation. And so one of my first projects, putting together a partnership, starting my own company with friends and family money was a row house conversion right in, right in Shaw, the Shaw neighborhood, just south of Howard University in D.C. and, and that's, that's, I mean really the inspiration there was just love of the community, love of D.C. driving around, seeing these buildings and just imagining kind of what, what would that be? What, what could that be? What potential can, can this building live up to if it just got the right design, had the right vision, just execute on it, putting together, you know, the right investors to, to do that. And so we converted that into.
John Coe - host [18:50 - 18:50]
Into.
Jason Bonnet - guest [18:51 - 19:49]
First project and that kind of kicked it off where spent a lot of time in the Shaw district and then expanded out from there. Now all of these projects were of small scale, right? I don't think anything really exceeded more than $2 million back then, but it definitely was enjoyable. Wearing all the hats. Whether it was going back to my youth, pulling wire, swinging hammers, paying the invoices, administrative work, working, going down to the permitting office, sitting there to pull permits, negotiating and dealing with lenders, or even working hand in hand with the real estate agents to sell the Sell each of the individual condos. It was really a. I, I didn't know any better, John, back then in terms of being in my young twenties. Why couldn't I try everything? And so that was. That was one way to get an education. Right. It's just by. By doing it versus going to school.
John Coe - host [19:50 - 20:01]
What was the biggest challenge in doing that? Was it raising the money? Was it the visioning of the project, finding the deal, structuring everything, or selling the finished product?
Jason Bonnet - guest [20:03 - 20:55]
The, the most, the most challenging of it all really comes down to fundamentally to who your partners are. And so as I was taking on more opportunities, more projects, I brought in partners that I was naive to trust at the surface and not necessarily do a further due diligence on. And so I had one partner with one project that said he was doing one thing and was doing another as it relates to kind of some accounting methodologies and where certain money was going. And so, and so I learned the hard way in terms of how to. One, once I realized what was happening, having to shut down the project, lock up the project.
John Coe - host [20:55 - 20:55]
Wow.
Jason Bonnet - guest [20:55 - 21:54]
Get, get attorneys involved and then get into my. A lawsuit as it relates to really. Oh, no, defending. Defending the investment, really getting it back on. So that was a, that was definitely a lesson learned. I think one of the things I learned from that, from the attorney I used was as it relates to how far you take a, how far you take a lawsuit, right. And when, when should you really mediate or settle? And there's always an opportunity cost that everyone has to kind of weigh, right? And it's, do you pay this person even though you know you're in the right, or do you pay your attorney and keep going in court? And everyone has their own philosophy in terms of what to do. I see it more as my focus. Intention is always getting back to the project, getting back to what I want, what I want to do, which is the development, not necessarily being caught up.
John Coe - host [21:55 - 22:09]
In, in those being right necessarily being right. I, you know, it's more. I, I sense you look at it as an obstacle that you're getting. Try to get around and just let it, let it be. And that probably makes the most sense in the long term.
Jason Bonnet - guest [22:10 - 23:12]
That's right. So. So yeah. So getting hit with that, that curveball early on, you, you really take that lesson learned from, from that, that point forward. And that I think one of the things that taught me as well, and I think which I carry on, of course, to today, present day, but also even when I was at. Or a city or Brookfield is every dollar that is invested in a project. I feel the fiduciary responsibilities in terms of, it feels like from those first years learning that these are my dollars and to lose any of these dollars or not to be thoughtful and caring in terms of the return on that investment is very painful to me. And so I've been focused from that get go. It's kind of been ingrained in me. From starting your own small company back then in terms of how to approach this real estate investments and the commitment it takes because these projects take a few years, if not longer.
John Coe - host [23:14 - 23:30]
My sense is you probably had understanding investors too that saw what was happening and, or somewhat willing to allow you to escape issues there without causing too much trouble and have faith in you long term.
Jason Bonnet - guest [23:31 - 23:49]
That's right. That's right. Yeah, it's. And, and that was with my parents and another family that invested in, and really supported me in that growth. I mean, they continued, they're still here and they continue to, to support me in different ways.
John Coe - host [23:49 - 23:50]
Sure.
Jason Bonnet - guest [23:50 - 23:52]
So that's great. Yeah.
John Coe - host [23:52 - 24:01]
So you then pivoted and went on to graduate school. So why, you know, what was the incident that created that motivation? Just out of curiosity?
Jason Bonnet - guest [24:02 - 26:21]
Yeah. I, I give a lot of credit to ULI Urban Land Institute and the mentorship programs that they have for as they call young leaders or just early year real estate professionals. And so I was in a number of those programs and my mentor at that time, Marcel Acosta, he, he does this, he does this exercise where he says, okay, imagine yourself and it's your retirement party and I want you to plan out what you've done in your career and what, what you would say at this retirement party when you look back. And so I still have this, this PowerPoint and I hit on a few things and we all get into our group and we share it. And then really through conversations with him and other mentors, it was okay, well, instead of this being a dream or instead of this kind of being just an imaginative kind of exercise, what, what should you really consider in regards to kind of achieving your goals? And the, the opportunity was, hey, go back to school. Like consider going back to school. That, that's really the opportunity to take a jump from being a small scale entrepreneur really into an institutional developer. And, and so through that, through that exploration, looked at a lot of schools, but I landed on USC in Southern California in the MRed program there. And just from the first days of visiting the staff that was there and the leadership of that program, there was Sonia Saulian who just recently retired but she was another supporter, a mentor of mine through that program. Coming in there, that really was kind of the, the doors opening up and realizing, okay, now this, this is really kind of how you kind of take a dream into reality and what's the path that you should follow as it relates to kind of what I, what I imagine my retirement speech would be decades from now or then.
John Coe - host [26:22 - 26:43]
It's interesting going from urban D.C. to Southern California to Los Angeles area. Totally different environment in many ways. Was that part of your decision to kind of shift gears geographically just to get a sense of the California market? Or. Or was it purely just the academic program choice of usc?
Jason Bonnet - guest [26:43 - 28:57]
Out of curiosity, it, it was funny you asked that question because if you would have asked me when I was coming out of Carolina, I, I would have said, I am, I'm an east coast kid. I'm New York all the way. You will not find me in Southern California. And in flip flops, of course, you fast forward a few years later and long hair flip flops, living at the beach in Santa Monica and fully embracing Southern California and saying, I never want to leave, ever. So funny how your perspective and you as a person changes throughout the years. The reason going there was absolutely academic, but also the classmates that were in my class. And so it was one of the best times of my life, the relationships I built there, not just with the administration or the professors or the mentors there, but also my classmates, my. The colleagues there that friends to this day. And actually one of, one of my partners, in essence, was one of my classmates from usc. And that program, really top program in terms of real estate, really on the entrepreneurial side, but also just real estate development because it just, it covers all the disciplines and the group that they pull together. The classmates come from all walks of life. So I'm sitting in a class and there's a few developers, architects, public policy. On the public side, you have finance, whether it's private equity or debt or lending. And so you're not just learning from your professors in the classroom setting, but I learned just as much from my classmates and all the industries or the sectors of the real estate industry that they came from. And that really opened up my eyes in terms of how much you can learn from your friends and your classmates.
John Coe - host [28:59 - 29:21]
So you were situated in flip flops on the beach at Santa Monica, and you're wrapping up your development career there or your development education at usc. What are you thinking about at that point with regard to the next step after you finished up? And what did your advisors tell you there as far as what. What to think about?
Jason Bonnet - guest [29:23 - 32:08]
I was. Yeah, well, I was very focused, some would say stubborn in terms of. I would not accept anything but a development position and something of scale at a top real estate company. Now, of course, this was 2011, so still dealing with market. Very tough market, Very tough market. And really there are a few places you could go for real estate development at that time, mostly international. Right. It was China, Brazil, or I think the first market kind of really thawing out or coming back was D.C. washington, D.C. right. It was not California. And I think that was one of the. One of the things I learned in terms of kind of speaking of opportunity cost as it relates to your career is really what. What do you. What is your passion? What do you really want to do? And what are the. What are the. Guess I'll call sacrifices you. You need to make as it relates to progressing through your career and giving yourself opportunities. And there were no development opportunities in, in California or in the West Coast. And so you, you really need to go to where the opportunity is, and then once you get that opportunity, you can run with it. I'd also have to say, kind of speaking to mentors, that the opportunities that were presented to me or kind of the doors that opened came from two individuals as it relates to landing at Forest City or given an opportunity to interview for a position at Forest City. And that was Stan Ross, who was sitting on the Forest City board, and he was a very big part of the USC program. And so he was a mentor of mine there. I can remember the conversation we had in terms of, okay, list your top five companies you want to talk to after you graduate. Where would you like to be? And I listed numbers 2 through 5. I won't name those firms, but I didn't list number one. And then he said, okay, well, you forgot one. And I was like, oh, I guess I did, right? He's like, yeah, you're number one. It's Forest City. I'm like, yes, you're right. You're right. Before, I didn't want to be so forthcoming in terms of the saying that first. But he knew exactly where I was going. And then Brian Jones, who at the time was the head of their Forest City west coast office.
John Coe - host [32:08 - 32:20]
Could you give a quick synopsis of Forest City, what it was, how it became what it was, and then its evolution, of course, after it was sold a little bit.
Jason Bonnet - guest [32:21 - 33:11]
Sure. Forest City headquartered. It was headquartered in. In Cleveland, Ohio. National Real Estate Company that was started by the. By the Ratners over a Hundred years ago. And it really started with controlling land and, and hardware stores that then pivoted to, to real estate that then became a multi billion dollar company with headquarters or offices in New York and D.C. and Los Angeles and San Francisco and Denver and Dallas focused on, on shopping centers and then residential, multifamily and, and then to mixed use, large scale public private partnerships.
John Coe - host [33:13 - 33:22]
And so when you interviewed and joined them, what was your thinking, thought process and what were they thinking about you at that time?
Jason Bonnet - guest [33:23 - 36:31]
Yeah, it was an opportunity to join the Yards team early in phase one. So this was before the parks opened, before the first buildings open, really before the first retail open, which if I'm remembering correctly was pot bellies, which I think is still there at this time. And yeah, I can remember flying out from LA for interviews, meeting, meeting with the team there, Ramsey Miser, Alex Nyan who was there at the time or both of them at time, and then meeting with Debby Ratner Salzburg. And I, I can remember that conversation with, with Debby at, at that time. And really the, the conversation was a, was more about kind of the, my approach to development, my, the entrepreneurial spirit that I, I came from as it relates to starting my own company. I, I had been in so many other interviews before with other companies and it was always a question of, you know, okay, well you're coming from a small company that you started, why would you fit here in this institutional environment? Like do you, do you understand corporate politics? Was one of the interview questions I had previously gotten. And I, and in my head I said what, why is that even, how is that a question about real estate development and kind of doing my day to day job as it relates to corporate politics. Putting that aside, the conversation was just so refreshing and energizing with Debbie in terms of learning about the family and how that all started. The entrepreneurial spirit that still just was part of the DNA irrespective of the size of Forest City at that time. That, that was their, you know, the day in and day out kind of spirit of the company, the development team and the Yards project and the confidence and belief they gave in me in terms of giving me an offer and bringing me in into the team. Coming from where I came from, I said I'm not going to let them down. I'm going to take this opportunity and I'm going to run with it and do anything and everything I can in terms of, in terms of that opportunity. I kind of kid that, you know, you go back to grad school and you're paying a lot of money to learn something. Usually when you make a decision to go back to grad school or go back to school, it's because you have a passion for something. And so you're really investing back into yourself. You're working on that, that craft, you know, day in and day out. And then the first job you get coming out of that, where they're actually offering you a salary, it's like, wow, how did this happen? They're actually going to pay me for something I've been paying to do at school for the last couple of years. This is great. But don't let anyone tell them I do this as a volunteer gig. Right.
John Coe - host [36:33 - 36:37]
And you're not putting up capital on your own either. So, you know, that's the other thing.
Jason Bonnet - guest [36:37 - 36:38]
You know, that's right.
John Coe - host [36:38 - 38:24]
You're not taking the entrepreneurial risk here. So to some extent, that was a relief. But over time, you knew this would build skills to be able to do an entrepreneurial thing that you're doing today, obviously. So that's another piece of it. But now you see the scale of what you're doing. And so I'm sure you were excited to see the Yard's, you know, vision at the time and what they. What Forest City had the capability of doing there, which they, of course, accomplished. So talk about, you know, we met when you were there, and I think you were about a year or two into your position at that point, and you had a project. We walked around, as I remember, maybe you remember which one it was. But we did walk around. One of the jobs there that you, I think you were the project manager of. Talk a little bit about that experience of, you know, building in D.C. at the time, just to give the audience a little perspective. When this comes out, it'll be after I've had two episodes with Victor and Diane Hoskins. So Victor Hoskins at that time was, I think, the deputy mayor of the District of Columbia. And the Yards was one of his projects that he was overseeing, involved in with. He talks about the Wharf, the Yards, and he also talks about the Union Market as being major projects that he was involved in. But he said that this project was, I think, was the first of the ones of those three that he worked on. He said it was pretty inspiring to work with public private situations. So maybe talk about that relationship with the city as well as the context of the development itself, if you would.
Jason Bonnet - guest [38:26 - 41:50]
Sure. We may have to extend this podcast about four to five hours, because that's a. It's a long story, but I'll I'll do my best to thank you. To give it its due. The, the Yards project, you're absolutely right. It was a partnership with, with D.C. and with GSA, the federal government and the Office of Planning at the time. And they came together and they actually went through the planning and entitlements approval at the federal and city level before it went out to RFP. And so the developers that were responding to the RFPs really already had that density in place. Now, of course, and the approvals as well. Now that was all conceptualized, the framework until you actually start going through the, as someone said, the gauntlet of the agencies and all the acronyms that are needed for a, I like to call this a P4, not a P3, a public, public private partnership. This included the federal, included D.C. and then of course, a private as well. So it's just a whole nother kind of dimension onto public private partnerships. And you've got to give credit as well to Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton. It was, it was every, every success as it relates to a public private partnership comes because there's a champion on the public side and her commitment to open up the waterfront to the residents of D.C. and to the public again, to allow it to be accessible. You know, being able to walk up to the river, whether it's the Potomac or the Anacostia was her goal. And this, the Washington Navy Yard, which is still an active Navy facility, had this annex right next to this. And this was even before the Nationals, you know, the, our 2019, you know, World Series champion Nationals before that. They, they were still the Expos back then. Right. So this was a commitment to a waterfront project and to mixed use in the Southeast before any, any of these other major catalysts happened. And you know, and Eleanor Holmes Norton, she, she pushed that through at the federal level to open up that, that opportunity for D.C. office of Planning to work with GSA and then to take it to rfp, where Forest City eventually, eventually landed that, landed that opportunity. So that's, that's kind of the high level background of the arts. I, I stepped in and what, what we call phase one was really as the infrastructure, kind of the horizontal, the roads and the sidewalks and kind of the prepping, the pads was happening and there was this, this project had had anything and everything you can think of. So as, as a grad student, I was geeking out over this. It was waterfront, it was adaptive reuse. Right? You're working next to the Navy, you're working with gsa, you're working with all the federal agencies, you're working with dc, you're working with all the major utilities, you know, DC Water, you're. It's ground up, it's multifamily, it's retail, it's you name has.
John Coe - host [41:50 - 41:54]
You had even had brownsfield issues there too, didn't you? On site?
Jason Bonnet - guest [41:54 - 41:57]
Absolutely. Remediation to a whole nother level.
John Coe - host [41:57 - 42:05]
Yeah, I can imagine some of those old military buildings, some of it was adaptive reuse, Right. It wasn't just all ground up, right?
Jason Bonnet - guest [42:06 - 43:24]
That's right. Yeah. There's a lot of remediation to be had. And the interesting thing with that project is because of the brownfield nature of that and the different classes necessary the remediation is. And that was one of the things conceptually you understand how this is all going to work in terms of design approvals, permitting, what have you, but really you really don't work things out until you go through it. And one of the things, one of the challenges we realized is how far you needed to take the remediation, which really required you digging all the way down to the bottom of the hole and then also pouring your mat slab foundation or to cap out the remediated site. Now typically you close with a lender in your investments before you put a shovel in the ground. This was a delayed closing that kind of put everything in escrow. Now of course GSA is for the agreements were required to clean and remediate it, but we had to act as an agent. So there is a lot of overlapping in terms of kind of making this financially, financially, you know, figuring out the ability of this and then also executing that.
John Coe - host [43:24 - 43:38]
Did the Army Corps of Engineers get involved? I mean, how did the actual physical removal of the bad soil and all that happened, were you involved in that or was that mostly a government effort, just out of curiosity?
Jason Bonnet - guest [43:39 - 43:59]
We were agents, simply put, we were remediation agents for the government and all the necessary agencies that needed to be involved were. And then once it was done, you get the clean bill of health and then you could of course go vertical from there and then you'd close to fee simple ownership after that.
John Coe - host [44:01 - 44:26]
So it was a multi year phased process that really put your feet to the fire early in your career and development of a major mixed use project. You learned if you could quickly summate some what lessons you learned there. I'd be curious. I know you said it might last three to four hours, but maybe just put it in a little succinct bullets if you would. What you learned at that project. Out of curiosity.
Jason Bonnet - guest [44:28 - 47:59]
Yeah, the. I learned a few things. One, in terms of how to best join a team, be part of a team, and be part of something that's extremely big in terms of the vision of this, the commitments from people from the federal to the city level and how to do your best to kind of move that forward and be a champion to move that forward and do your best in terms of taking a more headline vision and executing that on the ground level in terms of learning how many people it takes, the village it takes to do that. And really you're, you're just, you're part of a team and the ability to pull people together to row in the right direction. Pardon the, you know, the, the water pun or the boat pun, but that's, that's really when, when there's, there's a greater goal or, or a vision that everyone is kind of coalesce around, you can, you can move, you can move buildings, you can move mountains, you can move remediated dirt, you can, you can do all that. And, and I think the, the other big thing I learned is, is just your, your passion for something and, and how you can really. It's okay to be passionate. A lot of times people say don't fall in love with real estate or your real estate. That could lead, lead to trouble. But I think there's, there's, there's an appropriate way to, to be passionate as it relates to what you do and its meaning. And this was, this was something pretty awesome that the people I worked with at Forest City in the yards there, the projects I worked on there, the tenants we worked with on the retail side or delivering the hotel there, and this was my backyard. I grew up in Maryland. I come down to D.C. all the time. And so this was, this is very awesome to be, to be part of. And so it was every day I had woke up just energized, just excited. I biked down from. I was living up in Penn Quarter and I just biked down to the yards and it's just, it was, it was an amazing time to be in real estate in D.C. during, during my years there. And, and one of the other things I wanted to share is just how wonderful D.C. was as the camaraderie that was from you being my mentor, John, from the mentees in that group there, and just the overall industry there. That was a renaissance period as it relates to. You had some amazing projects going on. Yes, we were all very competitive, but we were also all rooting for each other. It was again, another water pun or Boat pun. But Rising Tide lifts all boats. And that's exactly what we saw and what we participated in in terms of the collegial environment in D.C. from my level, but then also to mentors like you, John, that really facilitated and kind of permeated that good energy throughout the industry there.
John Coe - host [48:00 - 48:24]
Let's, let's talk a little bit about the development strategies for the project at the Yards. Forest City aimed to create a neighborhood rather than just place making, emphasizing great outdoor space, people of all ages, a grocery store, service retail, authentic local retailers. How did you ensure this comprehensive vision was maintained over the project's two decade development? Spanish.
Jason Bonnet - guest [48:27 - 50:48]
I, I was just part, part of the story, John. Right. So, you know, kind of referring back to the film, right? It's, there's an overarching narrative and you, the goal is kind of to put together that storyline and everyone plays their part and sometimes people play, you know, a few parts, whether you're in front of the camera, behind the camera, but absolutely everyone has invested kind of, you know, blood, sweat, tears and dollars into that kind of seeing that through over the decades. So how does that happen? In my opinion, I think it stems from great leadership from the beginning, the foundational kind of values and vision that are, that are put in place from, you know, the people we'd mentioned before and then, you know, through Forest City and of course is Brookfield that is, is leading that development. Now. Part of that is I, I think the success of when you, when you're truly authentic, which I think authentic is overused, but in the sense of when you're true to, when you're true to the community, you're true to the, the end user or the tenants there, and true to kind of who calls that home, whether that's you for a certain amount of time when I was living and working there, or who's truly living, working, eating, drinking at the yards, that it becomes, you know, it becomes part of, part of the ethos of the community. How do we do that? It's, it starts in the details, right? You make the right choices in, in your partners. You make your right choices in terms of your partners at the, at the top level, in terms of, you know, who you're working with, the GSA and the Navy and the commitments there, all the way down to the retail tenants, to your relationships with the bid who manage and operate and program the park, to your neighbors, how you engage your neighbors like the nationals, what hotel to bring in. It gets down to really the details.
John Coe - host [50:48 - 51:47]
And I think, yeah, on that theme, I've always wondered and I've asked many of my interviewees of large mixed use developments how you put the actual percentage of space together, what the mix is with regard to how much retail you need to satisfy the needs of the residents there. What about office use, how does that integrate with the project and then other uses recreational. And you know, I've talked to Monty Hoffman about it, I've talked to Vicki Davis about it. I've talked to, you know, Don Wood and Jeff Purkis at Federal. All done massive major mixed use projects. And so how does that mix evolve? And I'm sure that the first scheme is evolved significantly to the final scheme. So talk a little bit about that process and how that interplay happens for that thinking.
Jason Bonnet - guest [51:48 - 53:15]
Yeah, there, there's always gonna, there's always gonna be ups and downs as it relates to the maturation of a multi phase mixed use project. Right, right. And, and a lot of times you can get lost in, in maybe even paralyzed as it relates to kind of the broader vision or kind of how do you, how do you eat this elephant? Right. Because that's, that is a, that is a loaded question you've asked there, John. And it, and it takes years, years and, and different and, and the growth of a project and the success of the project. The, the success comes from hopefully you've got a flexible framework as it relates to your entitlements right now. You know, the, when you have that you can kind of twist and turn depending on macro, macro events. Sometimes there's a slight recession and you have delays and so your timing isn't necessarily aligned or things are going well. Right. And the density comes. So yes, the yards was bringing a lot of density down there that could support this retail. And it's, and it's an ecosystem that is a circular reference as it relates to, you need, you need the, you need the density, you need the daytime population which we had with the Navy Yards and DOT right there, the Department of Transportation.
John Coe - host [53:15 - 53:16]
Right.
Jason Bonnet - guest [53:16 - 56:25]
But, but you also need the evening and the weekend tenants. Right. You need the apartments. At the same time we were, we were delivering all, all these buildings. There was also the greater, you know, capital riverfront that was delivering multifamily and delivering office and of course the national and the stadium. The stadium was absolutely an accelerator to the timeline. And so that, that helped us in terms of going from, look at every the way we saw it was we're going to deliver our fast casual retail first. Right. Your pot bellies, you know, your grab and go to exactly to you know, you need your anchor tenants, right? You need. You need a grocery store there. There's absolutely the need for a grocery store and Southeast. But we also saw it as. There's other quality anchors in this kind of. This new generation of mixed use that we have. And one of those was Blue Jacket Brewery. Blue Jacket Brewery with the neighborhood restaurant group, opened up before Harris Teeter did. And people knew Blue Jacket, their brewery, before they even knew the Yards. And so I can remember. Oh, yeah, what are you working on this project, the Yards down at the waterfront. Oh, what's that? Oh, that's where Blue Jacket is. Oh, I know exactly where that is. Right. People knew Blue Jacket before actually, the Yards became synonymous with the. With the greater. The greater district. And it takes time and investment in the successes of those. Those businesses and the small businesses, whether it's Chef Michael White for Marini and bringing him down from New York City to kind of to give legitimacy to, hey, this is where chef driven restaurants can be to ice cream jubilee. I can remember the, the. The first when we, when Ramsay and I were in meetings, we needed an ice cream store for the arts. And our whole day was meeting different ice cream users. And trying their ice cream is probably one of the best days of my career. I don't think it'll get any better than that. But you just know when you're sitting in a room one, trying the ice cream meeting. Victoria, who was an attorney turned ice cream businesswoman, that this ice cream is amazing. She's an amazing businesswoman, and we absolutely want this location to be her first of many. And of course, now she's grown to that. And that really was kind of the. I wouldn't call it a secret, but just the formula, like the attention to detail as it relates to and your patience in terms of choosing the right partners and partners could be capital partners, but really your partners are your tenants and your retailers that you bring to the party because you're really. You're really committing to each other for the long haul and to the successes of their business and a project.
John Coe - host [56:26 - 57:35]
Well, the Ratner family, which is the founders of, you know, Forest City, have retail in their bones. So to me, the. The best mixed use developers, I think, in my experience and seeing it over time, have retail as the foundation of their experience. And I've always said this because my father was a retailer and I was. Grew up through that venue. And real estate, it's the most complex, most detail oriented part of real estate. Commercial real estate is retail. It has so many different moving parts and it's customer satisfaction, which, other than hospitality and hotel is the, you know, they're very parallel on that thought process, trying to meet the need of the customer. And if you have that orientation in real estate, you will be successful if you do it right. And so it's interesting to see the bones because of that thought process. I'd be curious what your thoughts are about that.
Jason Bonnet - guest [57:36 - 59:41]
Absolutely. It's, I don't think it's anything new as it relates to, you know, millennia. Right. We, we are very social people and absolutely the most vibrant environments are around commerce and retail and open space. Right. And so it's, it's no secret that, you know, you, you as a person want to spend your time where there's, where there's energy and excitement and something dynamic that's happening. And so putting retail next to open space. And it's not just the plan, the blocking and tackling of that, but the success comes in the commitment to the operations, the programming and everything in and around it. You can't just show up, kind of sign a lease and think everything's gonna go okay. It's. You need to be committed to the success long term. Right. And this is, this is what we've all signed up for in, in the real estate world is, is that that full cycle of the development and ownership to see things, see things through. And so, and that's as we travel, as I look for inspiration elsewhere. You know, during the time I was traveling a lot, I was bringing a lot of inspiration back to, back to the Yards and the different buildings I, I worked on. Whether that inspiration was New York for one building or Paris, my love of Paris for another, or even Bauhaus and, and Berlin for another one. You go to kind of the, the old, old world cities. And that's really at the bones of it, as you said, is sitting in a cafe, drinking a coffee. You're looking outside in this beautiful landscape, open space. And hey, you can also work there and live there. And there's upside. There's always going to be a premium to the mixed use environment.
John Coe - host [59:44 - 1:00:15]
Okay, well, let's pivot away from the yards for a moment. Beyond the yard, you also led a 1 point over 1 billion dollar mixed use, 5 million square foot project in San Francisco. So we can talk a little bit about maybe the evolution of Forest City and the Brookfield, because that's, I think under that guise is where you were moved to San Francisco, why you decided to do that, what gave you that opportunity, what excited you? And then about that project, if you.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:00:15 - 1:01:51]
Would the opportunity in San Francisco presented itself. The office out there had been in years and years of entitlements because if people aren't familiar with ceqa, it takes a while to get things approved in California. And so as entitlements were wrapping up, there's an opportunity to work in a different market and be part of the vertical development execution with that team that had all the successes as it relates to the horizontal entitlement process. The interesting thing with 5M in San Francisco is the reason why I wanted to take that was personally to get back to California. And another is to challenge myself as it relates to diving into a new market, a new city, calling a new place home, and really delivering something unique and awesome with a great team and office there that was led by Kevin Ratner during my time there. And so what better place to challenge yourself than to go to San Francisco? One of the hardest places to get anything approve. But when you do, it definitely moves, moves the needle. And it was one of the things I learned from my time there is being patient as it relates to learning the dynamics of different markets in different communities.
John Coe - host [1:01:51 - 1:01:58]
What was the biggest difference between working in San Francisco and working in Washington D.C. just out of curiosity.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:02:00 - 1:03:25]
Yeah, I had always heard of this term nimby, but it really smacks you in the face out there and wakes you up. So it was, I always thought that, hey, look, there's always a compromise to be had. There's always a win win situation or way to cut a deal. There's always a way, right? If you're smart enough or if you're creative enough. And I learned sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes there is no win. Sometimes you have to. Unlike what I learned earlier on in my career where it's like, hey, this, this lawsuit is just a bump in the road and let's move on, get back to the project that when I get out, got out there. The 5M project was still in a sequel lawsuit. We were working through an appeals process that could have taken another couple years. And for that we had to see that through in the courts. There was a moment in time where we had thought we had pulled together a true win, win, win compromise and settlement to then move away from the lawsuit and just get to design and construction. But then that's, as I said, I learned what the, what NIMBY truly is when there is no win win and you just got to work through the court system.
John Coe - host [1:03:26 - 1:03:44]
What were the, you know, in less than a minute, if you could explain what CEQA is to the Listeners. And then what were the obstacles in that path that really created the difficulty? And why there's litigation in the project, Just out of curiosity.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:03:45 - 1:05:14]
Yeah, it's the environmental act in California. And so every project that triggers that has to go through a plethora of work in order to check all the boxes to make sure that everything is up to snuff as it relates to environmental and things that could easily trip that up is. Is traffic studies. And that's really kind of the way if certain community organizers or other NIMBYs really want to slow down the process, can challenge any of those traffic studies or results or other findings as it relates to what's happening on the site. And so it just gets to be really litigious. It extends the length of an entitlement that could typically take maybe a year or two in another market to eight to ten years. And that. And that. I mean, that's the interesting thing with a project like 5M that from the first. First go to when we really put a shovel on the ground, it was. It was just over 10 years. And so, you know, kudos to. For. For Citi and the team out there that was driving it until I joined the party. But it really takes some tenacity throughout the narrative arc of a project to really see things. See things through.
John Coe - host [1:05:16 - 1:05:44]
So the project is not waterfront, and I always got the impression that CEQA was related to waterfront assets. But when I think of San Francisco, it's surrounded by water. So, yeah, the island, you know, it's really a peninsula. I went to grad school there, so I know the city pretty well. So it's. And culturally, it's a very diverse, very interesting place in a lot of ways.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:05:44 - 1:06:29]
Yeah, it's. It's a beautiful. It's a beautiful city. I love my time in San Francisco. Some of my fondest memory memories are in that office, you know, during that time with Jack or Kelly or. Or Jim Ostrom on the construction side. And we had a blast there, and it was. It was an amazing time to be in real estate there. It kind of reminded me of my early years in D.C. and, you know, the. The pandemic hit the city hard, but it's bouncing back, and it is one of the, if not most beautiful cities we have in the US and love everything around it, like Tahoe and Napa. Yeah, yeah. San Francisco will be just fine.
John Coe - host [1:06:30 - 1:06:41]
So you did another project there too, a $3 billion Pure 70 Waterfront District project. Did that have the same issues that your 5M project had, or were they different?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:06:42 - 1:06:58]
Yeah, it did not. And that is full kudos to Jack Sylvan and Kelly Pretzer who were leading the entitlement efforts there. Pier 70 was I believe, the fastest entitlement approval in the history of California.
John Coe - host [1:06:59 - 1:06:59]
Wow.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:06:59 - 1:07:21]
So. Yeah. And so it just speaks to having. Having the right people, the right teammates, the right leadership on board and the right relationships on the public private partnership side, which that was a partnership with the. The Port Authority of San Francisco to really, to really. When everyone's aligned, then you can make. Make awesome things happen.
John Coe - host [1:07:21 - 1:07:27]
So how did you overcome community groups there and issues there from that standpoint?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:07:28 - 1:07:45]
I wouldn't say overcome because it was. The approach was over communicating and there were hundreds of meetings. So it's, it's all. It's all about the approach and the commitment to the community and being. Being truly part. Part of the community. Right.
John Coe - host [1:07:45 - 1:07:50]
Those lessons Learned from the 5M project then to get this one done or.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:07:51 - 1:08:43]
Yeah, it's. It's apples and oranges. I think it. Different mission, different area of the city, different dynamics. Yeah, I wouldn't say definitely lessons learned in terms of how to. How to. How different approaches can lead to different results. But sometimes it's. Sometimes it's unavoidable challenges. Right. And that's just part of the journey that we need to go through depending on the project. But if you're fully aware of any and all the risks that happen, you're prepared and you make sure to have the right people by your side to work through it and you hope for the best. Right. As a developer, I should be fully optimistic in terms of kind of the best path forward, but absolutely realistic in terms of what could happen and be fully prepared for that.
John Coe - host [1:08:45 - 1:09:12]
You've expressed that supply is good because it grows the population and brings more retailers. How do you approach balancing the need for growth and new supply with the importance of maintaining the unique character and affordability of developing neighborhood, especially when public interests are involved, such as 20% of units for residents earning 50% median income at the yards. Go back to that project for a minute.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:09:16 - 1:10:19]
Yeah, I see that as a density is good because it really builds an economy of scale and it really feeds back into the economics of a project. Right. The more people working and living there, the more eyes you have on eyes you have on the ground plane, the more activated and energized it is. Helps with security and vibrancy and safety. It creates a very dynamic public realm and just district overall. And that's the beauty of, of cities. That's why I enjoy working in urban environments. So much is there's already an economy of scale that we're, we're building on. And I don't think there's a question in terms of the need for housing affordable or just a supply of housing that we need across the board in the US and these major, major cities.
John Coe - host [1:10:19 - 1:10:58]
Well, you mentioned scale and what, what I'd like to emphasize, and maybe hopefully you'll reinforce it is you build enough scale that you can then afford to provide for affordability. So, and that's one of the most difficult things I think to explain to government officials when you're looking for the amount of density you need then to accommodate financially the needs, you know, the affordable housing need. Talk a little bit about that, how that balance works a little bit there, if you could.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:11:01 - 1:12:09]
Yeah, it's you, you make a great observation because I think we're actually in these, in these challenging times, at least over the last few years in terms of projects not penciling the capital markets, not necessarily being as liquid as us real estate developers would like it to be, but it is coming back and just the supply in certain markets that has arrived but then you're really seeing a cliff drop off. But the demand is still going to be there over the next 5, 10, 15 years because of positive population growth. And in certain markets that absolutely cities are realizing that the, the challenge is in delivering more housing. But the opportunity is at as absolutely as you're saying with the density and delivering more housing both at an afford, affordable and market scale and really diversifying the offering at a greater scale that then you can get economies to that to help in these and delivering more housing.
John Coe - host [1:12:11 - 1:12:38]
So in essence the success of the market rate product and the retail and the other things allow for accommodating the less, you know, expensive units so that you can build more of those to accommodate the need. And that is just this interesting. You know, some people look at it as a paradox, but I don't see it that way. I see it as just kind of all boats rise when, when the scale's there.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:12:39 - 1:13:47]
Absolutely. We, we saw it at the yards in terms of the, the AMI targets that we had in those units that we off that we offered there that you could provide a home that someone could qualify for that worked in the restaurants or worked at Harris Teeter and so their commute would be just walking outside their front door from their apartment building. That, that's, you know, I can remember being at Due south, one of the restaurants there and, and talking to the server there and, and how she was saying that, Yeah, I just, I just got qualified for one of the, you know, 50% AMI units next door. I'm so excited to move into the new building and that in terms of kind of the excitement or joy of hearing that, kind of all, all the kind of the work and, and everything to then see, see it actually being someone being so happy, like, hey, I'm going to live here, I'm going to work here. And just being part of the community is just, it's, it's very rewarding.
John Coe - host [1:13:48 - 1:13:50]
I can only imagine. That's great.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:13:51 - 1:13:51]
Yeah.
John Coe - host [1:13:51 - 1:14:14]
So your profile mentions that you combined analytical skills with creative vision and foster public private partnerships to ensure projects align with stakeholder interests while enhancing community value. Can you share an example where this approach was particularly crucial for overcoming a significant development hurdle in the public private context?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:14:20 - 1:14:27]
Yeah, it was and I, I think it really comes. Sorry, can you repeat the question again? Sorry.
John Coe - host [1:14:28 - 1:14:50]
Sure. Your profile mentions that you combine analytical skills with creative vision and foster public private partnerships to ensure projects align with stakeholder interests while enhancing community value. Can you share an example where this approach was particularly crucial for overcoming a significant developer hurdle in a public private context?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:14:53 - 1:16:26]
Yeah, this is a philosophy and approach that I apply in all the kind of early stage developments and opportunities that we look at. And really I think the one project that I can apply to the most is one that I've been working on recently that we haven't announced yet, but it'll be announced soon and it's working collaboratively with our partners. The ownership of the asset and the city itself and really kind of framing up the quant of it in terms of the public tools that you can bring to bear to unlock affordable or income restricted housing, also job creation and the necessarily necessary qualitative that you deliver as well. The privately owned public open space, the retail you deliver, the, the energy and environment you bring in terms of revitalizing a block or a part of part of the city that has pretty much, I wouldn't say been forgotten, but at least hasn't been necessarily the primary focus of, of a city or, or, or the, you know, the, the business community in a while and kind of putting all that together to really bring both private and public to the table, to really kind of frame up, hey, this is how we're all going to invest in this opportunity. Of course there's a lot of analytics to that as it relates to economic impact.
John Coe - host [1:16:27 - 1:16:27]
Right.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:16:27 - 1:17:08]
And then it's also the broader vision in terms of, you know, what is this doing in terms of kind of revitalization in terms of kind of reestablishing the soul of this place, the history of this place, and bringing that back to the forefront and the importance of a city. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of collaboration, a lot of commitment from both parties. And once you put that together, of course the next step is the execution of it. And that's what we've done. And hopefully we can announce that shortly, in the next few months.
John Coe - host [1:17:09 - 1:17:31]
So let me now pivot to Essen, the company that you now joined, and your evolution from Brookfield to Essen a little bit, you know, and then how you came together and how you put it together and how you found your first couple projects. And then we'll get into a little bit more into the Essen philosophy a little bit, if you would.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:17:34 - 1:19:11]
Sure. So we saw this as a opportunity, as I mentioned at the beginning, to start a next generation development company that is focused on these large scale projects. Found that with our entrepreneurial spirit, in our drive, with our institutional pedigree, who better fitted than us than to pull together this team that has had working experiences and successes in the past and pulled this together? We're still small, but we're quick and nimble. And I think that's a differentiator as you compare us to these more legacy companies. And I think absolutely the opportunity is now in this down cycle where you've seen really a stalling of projects over the last few years that have not started. And what we've been able to do is come to the table with our partners that we're working with now on the pipeline that we control, which is over 5000 units now and hopefully continuing to grow, is the creative solutions that we can bring through lessons learned in the past. How we can execute with our talented team, really bringing value to the ownership that we formed for this pipeline, but then also the positive impact that we can have in these communities that we're working on. Whether it's Jersey City here or a few markets in the Southeast as well in the mid as Midwest.
John Coe - host [1:19:12 - 1:19:34]
Essen's core values highlight thriving in complexity, designing adaptable strategies and creating lasting impact by continuously pursuing improvements. How do these principles influence your decision making when faced with unique market shifts or unforeseen urban planning challenges that often arise in public private partnerships?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:19:37 - 1:21:28]
Yeah, it gets back to relationships. It gets back to our commitments and our ability to see through the fog and even sometimes the chaos, the chaos of, of today. As you look at kind of the last few years and kind of the real estate macros and really how that's Stifled the ability to unlock construction starts in these major markets or just attract investment. What we've been able to do is really align with best in class partners, whether they be corporations or other owners, in regards to continuing to do what we do best at large scale management. Mixed, Mixed use. Some would say a few years ago that, you know, mixed use development was a four letter word, right? And there's been a lot of focus as it relates to either kind of merchant platforms or just focus strictly on logistics and data centers. But we absolutely have the belief that, as I stated earlier, that mixed use isn't, isn't a new invention. It's been around for millennia, right? There's always going to be that dynamic environment in the built environment that people are going to want to congregate in, live in and work in. So that's really our focus, that's what we're going to continue to do. And through our core values and our ethos as it relates to the partners we have and our team members, that's absolutely what we believe in and we know we're going to be successful. And that's what really excites me and energizes me every day.
John Coe - host [1:21:29 - 1:23:07]
Coming forward, talk about your team a little bit and how you kind of interlate. To me, the success of development teams require a multidisciplinary approach where you have each person brings a unique characteristic to the table for a scale of the what you're looking at. You need, at least in my opinion, at least three or four people because of the different complexities that you bring, you know, to understand how to coordinate because you're basically as development is my mind, you're conducting an orchestra or you're as one developer told me, and another one is you're, you know, a marionette and you're a puppeteer. In essence, you're controlling that. So to me, one person can't manage a project of the scale that you're talking about successfully. Now there are a few major players that have, you know, in my experience have interviewed a guy like Herb Miller for instance, or a guy like. I haven't introduced him, but I'd love to as Stephen Ross, if related somebody of that nature that has this kind of, I don't know what you call it, gravitas at the individual level, Sam Zell type personality, that kind of everything flows through them. But to me, the best development has, you know, a team that works together significantly. So talk about your team a little bit if you would and you know, how you all came together and what Disciplines you all bring to the table.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:23:09 - 1:25:00]
Yeah, we are a team of teams. And that's where you can find success, is through being dynamic. Another way to say that is a flat organization, right? Being dynamic and really everyone coming to the table and kind of the trust, the built in trust that we all have with each other, from most of us working in some form or fashion together in the past and different chapters of our careers and coming all together now. And it's really kind of coming together just based on the ethos of Essen and the pipeline we're working on. It starts with our partners. So our CEO Matt Elcesser and I worked with them back in Forest City during those days and then of course at Brookfield 1. Brookfield acquired Forest City. I mentioned my classmate that I, that I'm partners with, Dave Boyo, he's one of the partners. He's our chief Investment officer. So we've known each other since being classmates at usc. And Dave and Jim Chang have worked together at Croesus Group over a decade plus on the private equity side, deploying capital and executing on real estate across the US through their Asia offices and investments and funds. So the four of us kind of bring that very dynamic experiences and relationships to the table there. And we've had the fortune to bring along people from our pre construction side, other developers, accounting operations, more development operations to this, this core team that we have. And so yeah, we're, we're very excited. We're small but mighty is what we like to say.
John Coe - host [1:25:01 - 1:25:34]
How did you convince the town fathers at Jersey City that you, this very small company that's just starting up, could manage a project of this nature based on. You had said you'd had groundwork there at Brookfield, so you in essence had been on the ground with them, with the, with the city followers and people that had influence there to convince them that you're capable of doing it, but you're brand new, you're starting up. How did they know that you could get this done? Just out of curiosity?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:25:35 - 1:25:37]
We've done it before and we'll do it again.
John Coe - host [1:25:38 - 1:25:39]
Okay.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:25:41 - 1:25:58]
Like, like I said before, with our institutional successes and what we've already done in the past, I don't think there's any question as it relates to our abilities and our successes on our execution. I'm fully confident in our ability, John.
John Coe - host [1:25:59 - 1:26:01]
I get it. And you have to be.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:26:01 - 1:26:03]
That's right. That's right.
John Coe - host [1:26:04 - 1:26:26]
You have our essence. Core values include the highest standards with an emphasis on unwavering integrity and advice. Discipline, discipline, adaptability. Ingenuity and leadership. How do these values specifically guide ESSENCE approach to negotiating, structuring and managing complex private, public private partnerships where building and maintaining trust with all parties is crucial?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:26:28 - 1:27:49]
Yeah. It comes down to one word and one approach to work in life. It's transparency. It's, it's part of our DNA. It's how best to approach, in my opinion, a negotiation, a relationship and a partnership. And if, if there's a transparency on both sides, then absolutely you can tackle anything that comes your way, whether those of course are successes or challenges and you just use work through those. It's as simple as transparency. And a lot of times you don't have the fortune of having trust already built in, but I think through, through the act and the commitment of just being transparent in your actions and your conversations and your business, that's absolutely where you can quickly build trust and confidence in what we do. Not just with our private partners and investors, but of course in the cities that we work in. We want everyone to be successful. There's win wins for all. And that's what I hope to achieve at the end of the day. And all of us here at Essen, that's great.
John Coe - host [1:27:50 - 1:28:12]
You've successfully executed over 4,000 multifamily units, 1 million square feet of office and 500,000 square feet of retail, hotels, parks and community spaces. Considering this breadth of experience, what aspect of creating vibrant mixed use communities through collaborative public private endeavors do you personally find most rewarding?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:28:15 - 1:29:44]
Yeah, I highlighted before, I think there's two parts to that. It's of course, it's the visioning. It's participating in it or just carrying through the, the iteration of the visioning. If, if someone kind of set that in motion previously to kind of to the the end where it's that restaurant that's open up, that seeing the ice cream shop be successful and you know, kids and parents standing in line that, that kind of weaves through the park because the ice cream is so good. Or just having a cold drink at the bar of a restaurant that you can remember negotiating diligently with, you know, two years prior and then finally opened up and you know, having a celebratory drink with, with the owner or one of the owners. But then also that's, you know, part of their half their staff is living in your apartment building next door. And just that, I mean that's, that's what truly excites me and is seeing those things come to fruition. It's not just the vision is absolutely fun and an integral part of kind of framing up how things can happen, but really kind of seeing it in reality and really play out in terms of those that are the customers or living there is. It's awesome.
John Coe - host [1:29:45 - 1:31:38]
So after 45 years of looking at real estate and analyzing it, working it, I came up with a kind of a thesis on the philosophy or the at least the approach of what it takes to be successful in the industry a little bit. And I look at it as a three legged stool. The first is communications, understanding how to communicate, how to sell, how to negotiate, how to make things happen from a. And to me that's probably the first and most important leg. But of course another leg is analytics and understanding the economics of the deal. Financing and being able to make the numbers work, the rents, getting the, you know, it's how the engine runs. And then the third, and this is the area that I want to explore a little bit further because I asked you to read a book called you'd brain on Art and that's the piece that I want to get into a little more in detail is the artistic side of real estate, which is design, construction. The physical side of putting the project together, which to me separates real estate from all other professions in, in business is the artistic aspect of it. And there's no other industry that gets into the complexity of art in, in business than real estate, in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. But you, you also looked at filmmaking, which has some analogy because that's a business too. They couldn't put a film on without. So you do have that parallel and you talked about it right up front. Filmmaking, business and the real estate business have a lot of parallels. So talk about your brain on art, the book, how that frames up with your personality and then how you think it influences real estate development.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:31:41 - 1:34:16]
Yeah, absolutely. Look, art is absolutely essential. Essential as it relates to inspiration and the, the energy that it gives me day in and day out in art I define as music, film, the, the art hanging right behind me on this wall to even, even the built environment. Right. There's an art to, to cities there's an art to buildings, there's an art. There's really an art to everything. And I think one of the, one of the, one of the things that really got me from, from, from the book was kind of speaking to the built environment and in awe. Right. The awe you get within a built environment. It's, it's, it's. We say a lot, oh like we're focused on making this authentic, this is an authentic place. And they speak to this in in the book. And it's really more. Whether you understand it or I guess you could say the trained eye versus the untrained eye. It's that awe that is almost transcendence in terms of your experience in a place. It. I think it comes down to does, does it feel like it has soul? Like why does it feel that it has soul? Why is this place giving you good vibes or this all when you, when you walk down this, like for example, you know, Commerce street here in New York in the West Villages, those are one of those cobblestone streets I walk down. It's like, why is it giving me this, this, this feeling, this, this, this place is real. That, you know, it's. That is kind of the part of, kind of the history of the soul, kind of the art and the, the influence of that it's had in terms of kind of how certain built environments feel that way and how others don't. I think that's those that can incorporate art and as well as have a passion for art either in their day to day lives. Whether that's making pottery or sketching or you know, prescriptively applying it to the building you're developing. Developing or somewhere in between, like being inspired by a piece of art or a piece of music or a film that then informs your decisions or the vision of a project. I think probably the latter is more kind of how I've weaved that in into the development process.
John Coe - host [1:34:16 - 1:35:15]
There were two terms used and they're similar terms. One was, the first one is more general and that's neuro aesthetics, which I think they define as kind of how the nervous system and all the senses we have, all six, five senses we have, are affected by the aesthetic, the room you're in, the physical space you're in. And then taking it to the next level to real estate is neuro architecture. And so as you're designing a project or a physical space or built building, how are you integrating neurology, in essence our brain and the artistic aspects of the brain, what the brain delivers as well. So the touch, the feel, the smell, the sight, the hearing, the whole thing. How do you bring all that together when you're designing and developing a project?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:35:19 - 1:35:41]
Yeah, it's. It's a very deep attention to details, to the, to the point where. And maybe this is something like I learned through just my film studies is project projecting yourself into an imaginary environment. Right. Or maybe, maybe I learned it as a kid. Right. With your imagination.
John Coe - host [1:35:42 - 1:35:42]
Yeah.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:35:42 - 1:38:20]
You know, and there's something to be said in Terms of imagination and holding on to that, you know, that. That youthful energy and imagination, because it's really hard to put that aside and think too much about the problem or the detail at hand or the past as adults. But it's, it's absolutely that. It's remembering that it's, it's not just about the visual aesthetic and, you know, what color this wall is and whether I like it or not. And that's one of the things that I always challenge our teams, and in particular the design teams, is our vision. The vision should be something that is agreed on by all and we need to align there. And it's so simple that I define it as a singularity. It's so simple that this singularity and so, so strong and focused that this, the singularity of a vision actually permeates throughout the entire process all the way to the end user. So whether it's you as developer or you as architect, or you as construction manager, or U.S. property manager, you all understand what that vision is in your own way, right? And then remembering that with all the senses and so kind of projecting yourself into a space and as you go through the design process, as you're building it and that even as you're walking through, focused on the operations and the programming of it, always to remember, you know, what are you seeing, what are you hearing, what are you smelling, what are you sensing? And making sure that there's a diversity, diversity of offerings there that kind of engulfs the user, the visitor, the tenant, the person who lives or works there, and then that kind of bubbles up to the awe that they really highlight there. And you get that in a mixed use environment. You get that when you put a pizza shop on the ground level because you smell the dough cooking, right? You could get that visually. And the smells as it relates to open space or parks right next to your front door, the trees and the flowers that you plant. So there's many ways to approach it. There's not one answer. But the thing you need to remember is to always be committed to the details and always just remember to challenge yourself, to kind of engulf yourself in that environment to make sure you're fully aware of what the end user is going to be experiencing.
John Coe - host [1:38:21 - 1:40:17]
So let's think about this from an adaptive reuse standpoint. So you've got an office building, let's say, that's really plain Jane, and it's just really stark. What do you do artistically to bring something like that to life? What are the things that, what are the elements you consider to artistically create something of value and special and get a sense that you've actually created something with intrinsic value to it. And how do you feel when you walk in that space? How does that make you feel when you walk in? Let me just cite one example before you answer that. So here in Bethesda, Maryland, Oliver Carr Carr Development Company developed a project called the Wilson and Elmo, which is a mixed use project. Two high rise towers adjacent to each other. One is office, the other is residential. You walk in that lobby and they have a Tate bakery adjacent to the lobby there that you can walk. I don't know if you've been on the project or not, but very special feeling as you walk in the space because it's got a kind of a cathedral. Not cathedral, but at least a three story lobby, significant space to it. And it has the bakery right next to it. And then he has like a mezzanine balcony around the lobby up top where you can sit in chair in, in tables and stuff describing it. But you get a sense that there's something special when you walk in that space. So I know you've developed things like that and you've done projects similar to that feeling. So talk about that creating that kind of ambiance as you walk into a property and the artistic feeling that you bring to it.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:40:19 - 1:40:30]
Yeah, it's. I think it's three key elements. It's light, it's sound and it's. And it's smell.
John Coe - host [1:40:30 - 1:40:31]
Yeah.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:40:31 - 1:40:49]
On. On the light. Right. I think, I guess depending on the era of the architecture and I think us being very familiar with dc, that, you know, they definitely loved their brutalist movement back in the day. Right. Which kind of limited daylighting into the building.
John Coe - host [1:40:49 - 1:40:50]
Yes, absolutely.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:40:51 - 1:42:54]
So any and all opportunity to daylight a structure through an adaptive reuse is absolutely critical and necessary for it to feel welcoming and actually thriving. There's plenty of studies that show the productivity levels of people within those environments. And so that is a simple architectural move in terms of daylighting. And also that's part of the egress thinking of the progression of people coming in and out of a space and how that lighting the day lighting, but also the artificial light works as well through all that. Right. So that's more on, on the vision side, on the sound, it's. It's all about music. You can be literal with the music in terms of activating music in the lobby, having places for people to congregate where there is live music, whether that's a, you know, just a pop up guitarist just jamming away next to a retail place or a music venue or the music that you pump in through speaker systems. And we're not talking about elevator music, right? We're talking something that really elevates the experience. And then the smell, the importance of the retail environment and the ground plane when you can and you can address that or bring that in. And that's like you said, a bakery, the smell of bread baking or who doesn't love the smell of fresh coffee in the morning? It seems like we can never get enough coffee shops. There's not enough coffee and caffeine out there for us. So what better than roasting beans smell just permeating through the lobby of your apartment or office building and your adaptive reuse when you walk in. You can never go wrong with coffee.
John Coe - host [1:42:54 - 1:43:21]
John, let's broaden that question a little bit more. From a neuro aesthetic perspective, the arts and aesthetics are understood to transform individuals in brain, body and mind. How do you envision leveraging scientific insights into how aesthetic environments influence well being, learning and community connection and achieving essence core mission in your developments?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:43:24 - 1:44:45]
That is absolutely a core approach in terms of how to implement that. And that's absolutely a differentiator. It just speaks to the details, right? As it relates to how can we incorporate things that are stimulating and educating. As it relates to our. Whether you're a tenant or whether you're a visitor, whether it's an apartment building or parks or whether it's a hotel or it's some other retail use that we're delivering. That's absolutely the opportunity to engage the customer and the audience in a. In a different way. That really creates a stronger bond and engagement that then brings people back to continue to experience that. Right? In terms of like the prescriptive solution of defining what that art is and then what that installation is or what that approach is. It. It's all dependent on the project. Right? But absolutely the formula is there. And I think just being thoughtful and being committed to that is a differentiator. And that's always been the approach in my development career. And that'll continue to be our approach as it relates to our development projects at Essen is to absolutely incorporate that.
John Coe - host [1:44:47 - 1:44:58]
So how do you. What does placemaking mean to you relative to senses? If there's a way to define that effectively.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:45:04 - 1:46:10]
Placemaking is. Making is a very interesting term. It's something that can be applied to a lot of things. I really hit on what I said before is place making is being true to the place in itself, true to the Community, inviting that participation in. Into the process of informing what the development is, how to unlock that value as it relates to whatever that project is. That's what authenticity is. That's what place making is. It's the value creation that you bring to that site, to that building, that repurposing of that building that is collectively for the community. And when you've done that successfully, there almost isn't a direct answer, John, in regards to that.
John Coe - host [1:46:10 - 1:46:11]
I get it.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:46:11 - 1:46:22]
It's more, it's more of a feeling. You can. And you can sense it. It's. Does this place have a soul or is it soulless? Right. If that, that's.
John Coe - host [1:46:22 - 1:46:25]
It's hard to communicate it. You have to feel it almost is what you're saying.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:46:26 - 1:47:12]
You have to. You have to feel it. I, I see it as a. There's an approach and in a process, in regards to exploring and then how to incorporate that, the ethos, the DNA that you need to in a project through the entitlement or design project, that then gives you a better success rate as it relates to truly place making. And part of that is being transparent as it relates to the processing and really, truly being authentic. Even though I don't like to overuse that word authentic to the place. And part of that is truly being not just a visitor to that place, but calling it home. And so that's. That's what I called placemaking. John, hopefully that's enough answer.
John Coe - host [1:47:13 - 1:47:16]
Well, you know, I mean, uli, the Urban Land Institute.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:47:16 - 1:47:17]
Yeah.
John Coe - host [1:47:17 - 1:47:44]
That dedicates an entire, I believe, even its own panel on place making itself. What is it? Why, you know, how do you make it happen? And it's. To me, it's an artistic process. You know, the economics are one thing thing and communicating is another, but you have to feel it and you have to get this artistic sense of what that really is. To some extent. Maybe I'm off, but I think that's the way it is.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:47:44 - 1:48:20]
That. That sounds right. It is definitely. Who knew we were artists, John? But in our own way, I guess this is absolutely. It's absolutely part of the process and, and a lot of times it is more on feeling and the qualitative side. And there's absolutely value to the qualitative side. There's an absolute importance to the quant. But the qualitative is what differentiates a project that has soul versus not having soul and those that use it.
John Coe - host [1:48:20 - 1:48:47]
You mentioned the word awe. Very few. I mean, sure, you have awesome financial situations, you have great returns, but awe, in my mind is this Feeling of, you know, spectacular something. Just this amazing physical feeling that you have when you're in a place that's very special. That's, you know, that's the way I look at it. I think you do, too, it sounds like. So.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:48:47 - 1:48:49]
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
John Coe - host [1:48:49 - 1:49:06]
All right, now we're going to shift to some personal things, if we would. What are your priorities in life, Jason and I assume family and your work is critical to you, your family and giving back. How about giving back? Maybe talk a little bit about that. If you do some of that.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:49:07 - 1:51:30]
Yeah. Family is an absolute priority, and spending more time at home is something I love to do or just what I call home is whether it's here in New York or traveling with my family and friends, I'm at home wherever they are when we're spending time together. And another priority is health. Right. Always focused on your personal health, your mental health. And the balancing. The balancing kind of work life is absolutely important. I think the more of a healthy environment and supportive environment you have, home at home absolutely makes you more productive and successful and focused at work. That's extremely important there. You can't do one without the other. That's my personal essential equation there in giving Back. I think one of the things that we've talked about is just the mentorships and how important that's been. I'm nowhere without you, John, and without my other mentors throughout my career, as I was learning from swinging hammers to now, and I absolutely am find the confidence and the conversations that we have over the last few years that you've provided me that absolutely give me guidance and help me day in and day out and other mentors are invaluable. And so thinking about this question, it's absolutely something that I've been focused on and will continue to focus on is giving back time to those going through, whether it's undergrad or grad school or shifts in their careers, that I've always been fortunate that people pick up the phone on the other end when I call and give me their time. That's absolutely giving back. To those that want to hear the story or just want someone to talk to in terms of making a decision on it, whether personal or professional career changes.
John Coe - host [1:51:31 - 1:51:45]
I noticed that you were on advisor to a proptech company as well for a while. I think you just ended that last year talk about that company and why you did that and what did you get out of that process, that experience?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:51:47 - 1:53:51]
Yeah, End grain. I was brought on to the advisory board there. That was through my brilliant Friend Brad Gilchrist. He pulled together an advisory board for those co founders Brent and Patrick. And they. And Grain focuses on the technology platforms as it relates to multifamily. And they've actually expanded and it's what we call mapping. So it's site mapping units, the utilization of those units, the costs and the rents to those units. I, I like to call it the Google Maps of real estate. And so that's really kind of the bigger picture there. That was an amazing experience, kind of sitting in and learning kind of the ins and outs of the tech business because that is very tech focused, but applied to real estate. And I got involved while I was still living in San Francisco and I was surrounded by anything and everything tech. And it was just, it was, it was an education. Right. It was a way to expose myself to a different environment, a different group in terms of learning how they do business, the metrics of a successful business on the tech side and what their challenges or opportunities they saw in the real estate industry. And hey, look, real estate and construction, we're not first movers, right? We're still, there's still an awesome opportunity here in terms of the best ways to incorporate technology into the real estate development process, in terms of the construction process, in terms of operations and just the experience I had there sitting on the advisory board, I could bring more the traditional real estate developer, construction and investor to the table where they also shared the more tech savvy part of the business. And so there many a wonderful conversation had.
John Coe - host [1:53:52 - 1:54:15]
Well, you were their, you are in essence their customer. So they're trying to figure out what their customer wants more or less. Right? Yeah. So you gave that perspective of, you know, you may want to think this is important, but that's not quite as important as this. So you might think more, think more along this line. So I'm sure you were a huge asset to them. That was great.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:54:15 - 1:54:39]
Yeah, yeah. And it was interesting to learn, you know, not just, not just me as the customer, but other customers like me and what they said and kind of learning kind of what other. What other colleagues and firms in the industry kind of how they approached tech engagement and investment and yeah, always an opportunity to continue to be curious and learn throughout your career.
John Coe - host [1:54:41 - 1:55:02]
Before, before I ask my final question, which I think you know what it is, I'm going to ask you if you have any other things you'd like to add, knowing that our audience is young, commercial, professional real estate people. Any advice, any thoughts that you might have for listeners in that are interested in the real Estate development business.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:55:05 - 1:56:36]
Yeah. Once you find your passion, it's okay to be stubborn in your pursuit of said passion. And it is always helpful to surround yourself with people that support you and hopefully love you as well. Right. So the importance of having, you know, your personal environment, whether that's your family and, or your friends being fully supportive of you and kind of your pursuits, then that is absolutely kind of. That's. That's a superpower that everyone can have. When you have that backing, then you have the opportunity to truly be stubborn about your. Your passion pursuits. And it'll take time. It'll. You'll have to be patient. You may have to move around to f. To chase those opportunities to different markets, maybe to. To different firms. There'll be challenges, there'll be obstacles. But at the, at the end of the day, I'm not saying I'm at the end of the day, John. Hopefully I'm only on my way. You kind of look back at the journey and all those experiences are just part. Part of what make you. You. So, so never compromise on, on who you are. That, that's truly. If you're true to yourself and true to what you're passionate about, you'll absolutely be. Be happy in what you do every day.
John Coe - host [1:56:38 - 1:56:50]
So if you were to post a billboard on i95, usually I say the Beltway, but since you now live In New York, I95, between D.C. and New York, what would it say?
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:56:54 - 1:58:04]
This was a difficult question. I had a few answers. I thought of some funny ones to try to make you laugh to end this podcast, but I guess I'll keep it serious. Estoya key. Estoya key. And what that, what that is, is, it's a phrase that I use a lot and at home as well, it's a reminder to always be present. Like be present in the moment. And it's also like by you being present in the moment, you're not worrying about what happened yesterday or in the past. You're not worrying about the future. Yes, every day in our jobs, we're worrying about schedule, budget approvals, what's happening tomorrow. But to truly be focused and to truly. And also it's a gift you give to others is to be present with them in that moment, whether it's your family, your friends with you, John, at work. And then it really allows you to then be yourself. Just a reminder. Be yourself, be present, and be there with those that you're there with. So estoya key.
John Coe - host [1:58:05 - 1:58:10]
Is that a Greek word? What is the Spanish? Spanish. Okay.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:58:10 - 1:58:11]
I am here.
John Coe - host [1:58:12 - 1:58:35]
Got it? Well, yeah. I'll ask you to email me the spelling of it so I can put it in the show notes, make sure I have it correct. But I love that concept, and I think it's, you know, spectacular. And this has been a great conversation. Jason, I really appreciated your time doing this. It's pretty broad and covered a lot of topics, and I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Jason Bonnet - guest [1:58:36 - 1:58:38]
Thank you so much, John. I really appreciate it.
